tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post114304883193577523..comments2023-11-05T07:21:05.146-05:00Comments on Under the Sycamore Tree: A College Course OptionBarry Yorkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04735703368766711796noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post-1143568967742530642006-03-28T13:02:00.000-05:002006-03-28T13:02:00.000-05:00We have 1 child through college and 2 still in. F...We have 1 child through college and 2 still in. For each, my desire was to have them stay at home for a year, work, take a few courses at a local college, then finish their college, hopefully without incurring debt. We found that the government doesn't really support this goal. If a child is not in full time school when they turn 19 (minimum of 12 credit hours), our insurance will remove them from our dependant coverage, because this is the law. It is difficult for a 19 year old to get a job that includes health insurance, so many have to buy individual coverage or go without. If they are in school, the child can remain on insurance until the age of 24. I'd like to see this law changed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post-1143224577237454092006-03-24T13:22:00.000-05:002006-03-24T13:22:00.000-05:00Barry --I'll add a few personal comments in suppor...Barry --<BR/><BR/>I'll add a few personal comments in support of your argument. <BR/><BR/>I started out at a commuter university in Indianapolis because they offered me a two-year, full-ride scholarship. At the time, I really wanted to go up to Purdue and join with friends who were working with Dave Long's first college ministry group. But, I stayed, and I'm glad I did. <BR/><BR/>I had a wonderful experience with great professors and a wide variety of students. Almost all my friends in college were working at least part-time. Many were working full-time jobs and going to school in the evenings. Many were in their 30's and 40's--coming back to get a degree. I had three classes with a woman in her late 60's, who was taking classes during her retirement. It's a wonderful experience to be around that kind of diversity. It also gave me a great chance to check out different majors and figure out what I wanted to do. <BR/><BR/>When I went for my Master's degree, I chose a small state-funded university in Michigan. I went on a full assistantship, which means I taught classes and the school paid for my degree. Academically, the program was not particularly challenging, but it provided me with wonderful experiences in teaching. I taught two classes a semester for the two years I was there. In that time, I taught both traditional and non-traditional students, and I came to appreciate the work ethic of students returning to classes even more. Non-traditional students knew why they were there, and they were willing to work to get the degree because they knew why they wanted it. <BR/><BR/>Now, I'm a PhD student at one of the top-10 ranked universities in the country. It's a private school with billions in annual endowment, and some of the best faculty in my field. I teach here too, and, while the students are capable and accomplished, most of them lack the depth of life-experience I've found in non-traditional students. These are kids who have had every advantage, and they don't even know how blessed their position is. <BR/><BR/>I'm thankful to be where I am now, but I'm also thankful for the way I got here. Now, I can appreciate the advantages in money and faculty that come from a top school. As an 18-year-old, I wouldn't have taken full advantage of these opportunities. Now, I can enjoy them and use them to futher my career. <BR/><BR/>I will also be finishing up a terminal degree at a top university with no student loans.<BR/><BR/>Knowing what I know now, I would never have wanted to go to a top university for my bachelor's degree. I learned far more around real people, working hard to get an education, than I would have around priveleged elites who have never faced the world of most people's everyday experience and have had everything handed to them. <BR/><BR/>As James said, every situation is different. Also, some programs, like seminary or law school, almost always require loans. But, why should you go in debt thousands of dollars for a bachelor's degree? If, your student is going into a program where the BA or BS will be the last degree they'll need, then spend the money if you like, but fewer and fewer programs are set up that way anymore, and it really is the final degree that matters. If you have an MA, MDiv, JD, or PhD from a good program, nobody will care where your bachelor's degree is from. Students who are willing to talk to their professors, pick the right major, and take the initiative to further their own education, can get where they want to go--regardless of where they start from. <BR/><BR/>My only advice for parents would be to avoid having their kids get their degree at a community college--these are usually best for the first couple of years, to get requirements out of the way. And, don't waste money at an expensive religious school that is not accredited. Even if your 18-year-old is 100% sure that he or she only wants to go into the kind of ministry programs the school supports, pick a different school. I've known far too many people who wish they could go back and get master's degrees, but can't, because their first degree isn't recognized.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post-1143204762733515552006-03-24T07:52:00.000-05:002006-03-24T07:52:00.000-05:00Pastor York, your article was a reflection of what...Pastor York, <BR/><BR/>your article was a reflection of what i am doing. And hey i will graduate while others are paying 4-6x more than me. <BR/><BR/>I think there is potential problem though as the child goes to school by having parents rather expect and demand the child to be home at a certain time while this student might have studies or other organizations on campus. Everything that parents do is in preparation for their sons and daughters to be men and women of the faith. <BR/><BR/>in Him.Robbie Schmidtbergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09198009060645096467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post-1143152135457467992006-03-23T17:15:00.000-05:002006-03-23T17:15:00.000-05:00Aaron - Thanks for the comments. Persevere, as we...Aaron - Thanks for the comments. Persevere, as we continue to pray for you and hear good reports of your academic and spiritual progress.<BR/><BR/>James - Point well made, as long as we also understand sending does not always have to mean distance, i.e., sending and local options do not have to necessarily conflict. I'm all for encouraging rigor among youth and sending when ready. Covenant youth in colonial days even attended college successfully in their early teens. But I think the difference is at that time a clear surrogate parent/apprenticeship relationship existed between the faculty and students.Barry Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735703368766711796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post-1143130735470512442006-03-23T11:18:00.000-05:002006-03-23T11:18:00.000-05:00I heartily agree with your points, Barry, given th...I heartily agree with your points, Barry, given the qualifying statements you have liberally inserted. However, let us never allow this approach, which is good for many people, to cause us to become apathetic in preparing the arrows to be shot at just the right time. There are some who need to be shot out earlier than others. It is just as great a sin to shoot too late as too early.<BR/><BR/>My point is that parents of junior high age children, etc., should prepare them with the mindset that they will be rigorously trained to be sent out early for maximum kingdom potential, and then the plan can be modified as needed. But to start with a mindset that assumes the young person should be limited to local options after graduation like you have mentioned can lead to disaster.<BR/><BR/>All of this is not to disagree in the least with what you have stated, it's just to reinforce the notion of using wisdom as we look at each person individually.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491507968583130534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14055038.post-1143066871156316752006-03-22T17:34:00.000-05:002006-03-22T17:34:00.000-05:00After nearly one year in college, directly out of ...After nearly one year in college, directly out of high school, I heartily agree with Pastor York's wisdom. I was 19 when I entered college, and I considered myself one of more mature freshmen on campus. Even so, I could have greatly benefited from starting college in more bite-sized pieces by living at home, working, and taking fewer classes at a local college. Probably the biggest thing I have learned is how much the way material is taught affects the students' desire to learn the material. Quite frankly, many professors are terrible teachers, and there ineptness translates into student apathy. In high school, I never had a class I didn't enjoy, which whet my appetite so that I wanted to learn more. Unfortunately, some of my classes at Purdue University have done just the opposite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com